HOUSE COMMITTEE ON RULES AND REORGANIZATION Subcommittee on Rules



March 1, 1993           Hearing Room E 1:30 p.m.   Tapes 4 - 5


MEMBERS PRESENT:  Rep. Fred Girod, Chair Rep. Dave McTeague Rep. Cedric
Hayden


MEMBER EXCUSED:   Rep. Lonnie Roberts

VISITING MEMBER:  Rep. Michael Payne

STAFF PRESENT:          Adrienne Sexton, Committee Administrator Kenneth
Brady, Committee Clerk

MEASURES CONSIDERED:   HJR    22   -    Constitutional   amendment   for
legislative approval of                         administrative rules HB 
2262   -   Filing   by   agency    with   Sec.   of   State before
filing of                        administrative rules

WITNESSES:              George Goodman, HJR  22 Ramona St. George, HJR 
22 Jewellee Houston, HJR  22 Thomas Smith, HJR  22 Dan Pascoe, HJR  22 &
HB 2262 Ray Jacobs, HJR  22 & HB 2262 Dale Williams, HJR  22 & HB 2262
Mildred McWhorter, HJR  22 Wayne Kennedy, HJR  22 Ginny Brewster, HJR 
22 Jack Vaughan, HJR  22 & HB 2262 Roy Turnbaugh, HJR  22 & HB 2262
Grover Simmons, HB 2262 Don Leach, HJR  22 & HB 2262 Bob Carpenter, HJR 
22 & HB 2262

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These minutes contain materials which paraphrase and/or summarize
statements made  during  this session.  Only  text  enclosed in
quotation marks report  a speaker's  exact words.  For complete contents
of the proceedings, please refer to the tapes. [--- Unable To Translate
Graphic ---]



TAPE 4, SIDE A

006  REPRESENTATIVE FRED GIROD, SUBCOMMITTEE  CHAIR: Convenes meeting at
1:35 p.m. -Opens hearing on HJR  22 and HB 2262.

015    GEORGE GOODMAN, ATTORNEY: In favor of HJR  22. -Submits written
testimony (EXHIBIT A). -Notes legislature's concern about separation of
executive powers. -HJR  22 doesn't do this, however. -How to trigger
process of oversight? -Consider private Attorney General concept. -Notes
Campbell's amendments.

130    GIROD: Would you object to a legislator acting as such?

133    GOODMAN: As an alternative.

138  REPRESENTATIVE CEDRIC HAYDEN: That wouldn't  be a disincentive. It
would just be  in the next budget request.

144    GOODMAN: Responds. -Committee members shouldn't be trigger
(advocates either way).

175    GIROD: Do you feel it would be too much of a burden to review all
rules?

179    GOODMAN: Yes.

189    RAMONA ST. GEORGE, OREGON HEALTH SYSTEMS: In support of HJR  22.
-Submits written testimony (EXHIBIT B). -Explains. -Notes Campbell's
amendments.

280  HAYDEN:  Questions  as  to  a reference  in  written  testimony  to
Rep. Edmondson's letter.

285    ST. GEORGE: Responds.

292    GIROD: What triggering mechaniSMwould you recommend?

300    ST. GEORGE: Responds.

315    JEWELLEE HOUSTON: In support of HJR  22. -Submits written
testimony (EXHIBITS C & D).

352    THOMAS SMITH: In support of HJR  22. -Submits written testimony
(EXHIBIT E). -Gives examples. -Notes Construction Contractor's Board.

TAPE 5, SIDE A

030    SMITH: Continues. 048    GIROD: How many people did you employ?

050    SMITH: Ten.

052  GIROD: Could you  have been more  prosperous & hired more  people
if not for all these rules?

054    SMITH: Yes.

071    DAN PASCOE: In support of HJR  22 & HB 2262.

100    RAY JACOBS: In support of HJR  22 & HB 2262.

146  DALE WILLIAMS,  OREGONIANS FOR  SURVIVAL: In  support of  HJR  22 
and HB 226 2.

170    MILDRED McWHORTER: In support of HJR  22. -Submits written
testimony (EXHIBIT F).

214    WAYNE KENNEDY, KENNEDY LOGGING: In support of HJR  22. -Submits &
reads written testimony (EXHIBIT G).

240    GIROD: Closes on HJR  22 and opens on HB 2262.

244    GINNY BREWSTER: In support of HJR  22. -Submits written testimony
(EXHIBIT H). -Notes that hearings don't mean anything.

300    GIROD: The hearings don't mean anything?

303    BREWSTER: Clarifies.

359    GIROD: Have you also seen HJR  22?

364    BREWSTER: Just recently.  I'm for SOME control or other. -Notes
that the public can be the "watchdog." -Notes arbitration board as a
possibility.

TAPE 4, SIDE B

031    JACK VAUGHAN: In support of HJR  22 and HB 2262. -Gives examples.

090    ROY TURNBAUGH: In support of HJR  22 & HB 2262.

100    GROVER SIMMONS: Submits written testimony (EXHIBITS J, K, & L).
-Notes "war" of foster homes.

151    REPRESENTATIVE DAVE MCTEAUGE: How come I haven't heard about this
"war"?

155    SIMMONS: Responds. -Notes Multnomah & Clackamas counties.

171  MCTEAGUE:  Why are  county commissioners  adopting  rules at  the
county level                   if                    they aren't willing
to work it out?

180    SIMMONS: Responds.

190  MCTEAGUE: Notes that he doesn't believe Simmons' amendments are for
this committee, but    should be for another.

202    SIMMONS: Continues. -Urges the repeal of ORS 443.780.

240    DON LEACH: In support of HB 2262. -With notice provisions. -Notes
 that there  must  be adequate  notice  in order  to  oversee all the
rules . . . cannot do all. -Doesn't go far enough, but with HJR  22 it
would. -In support of HJR  22.

334    GIROD: What's your feeling on the need for a trigger mechanism?
-Opens for discussion on HJR  22 as well.

339    LEACH: Responds.

392    BOB CARPENTER: Submits written testimony (EXHIBITS M & N). -In
support of HJR  22. -Prefers  HJR   22   over  HB 2262  because   it 
will  be  a constituional amendment.

TAPE 5, SIDE B

030    CARPENTER: Continues. -Notes his proposed amendments. -Notes when
hearings should be required and when they should not. -Notes  that a 
vote  on HB 2262  would be  delayed until  HJR   22 is taken care of.

141    MCTEAGUE: What happens to a law we pass if rules can't be put in
place?

180    CARPENTER: Responds. -Notes survey of Secretary of State's
office.

240    GIROD: Closes hearing on HB 2262. -Adjourns meeting at 3:38 p.m.


Submitted by                       Reviewed by



Kenneth Brady                      Adrienne Sexton Clerk                
             Administrator



EXHIBIT LOG:

A -  Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - George Goodman - 27 pages B - 
Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Ramona St. George - 29 pages C - 
Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Jewellee Houston - 1 page D -  
Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Jewellee Houston - 1 page E -  
Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Thomas Smith - 2 pages F -   Testimony
on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Mildred McWhorter - 1 page G -   Testimony on HJR
 22 & HB 2262 - Wayne Kennedy - 1 page H -   Testimony on HJR  22 & HB
2262 - Ginny Brewster - 3 pages I -      Information on HB 2262 - Ginny
Brewster - Phil Keisling - 1 page J -   Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 -
Grover Simmons - 2 pages K -   Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Grover
Simmons - 1 page L -   Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Grover Simmons -
9 pages M -   Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Bob Carpenter - 6 pages N
-   Testimony on HJR  22 & HB 2262 - Bob Carpenter - 4 pages